Zatikon is back and free to play!

Main Menu

Balancement of Units

Started by Kran, June 22, 2009, 10:18:49 AM

Previous topic - Next topic


There are lots of people saying that units should be more balanced. I created this topic to share some of mine ideas about the units that need a change. =D

Diabolist. Its currently to much powerfull. I know many people will agree with me, but it is much often the only kind of mage used in top constructed. I would suggest it start game with 0 souls, or limit again the maximum number of ghosts. But maybe the best option is increase ghost's deployment cost to 2.

Necromancer. Exept of combos with mourners, the necromancers are a bit underpowered. It cost to much and its summons are useless. I would suggest maybe that units killed by zombies rise as new zombies and units killed by skeletons rise as new skeletons.

Archangel. I would suggest it to be +1 life, + 1 power + 1 armour, and aegis changed to:

First 2 times an enemy attack, spell or skill is directed to an allied unit, it is cancelled. Max 1 time per allied unit. Or simply add a range to the aegis, and remove the ability to return to castle, and incrase again power and armour.

Priest. This unit is underpowered exept when come with clergy to protect. I would suggest it have 2 or 3 range in healing.

Shield Maiden. What about if the shield maiden receive damage with the protected unit armour? That would reduce people that use this to make weak units, like mages, become to much strong. So, i would like to see maybe it +1 life, with 50$ cost.

Diplomat. What about if while armistice, units are also unable to move in direction of opposing castle? If people like this idea, i think it need another change: Armistice need to be used at beggining of the turn, or until you move to enemy castle direction or direct something at enemy.

General. 4 power would be overpowered. I would like to see something like +1 commands next turn when this unit kills.

I would like to see also 2 power in strategist.

I would suggest confessor penance to get in range not murderers, but units that have attacked in previous turn. That would make it more balanced, i think.

Heretic. Its nice now, but what about of 4 power, 100$, and reckoning doesnt affect enemy units with 1 life?

Martyr needs a small boost. Maybe deploy cost 1?

I think mourners shouldn't be affected by lament. I cant see how to balance this unit.

Elephants. I would like to see something like footman attack: Move to unit and attack it and damage by 6. 5 range.

Chieftains would be nice with 5 range in goad, and -100$.

Changelings. Traded units should be immune to allies until beggining of turn. I hate changelings and artificers combo.

Golem. I think it needs 10 life.

Footman. What about if move to attacked enemy location when the unit dies?

Warrior. It needs +1 life. My opine.

Would be nice armory at 250$, and give +1 power to units in 1 range. Or maybe that can create squires, and still the same. (Squires would be something that protect allies, a bit weak)(Maximum 1 extra power per armory, for sure)

Abjurers need a boost. What about if 6 range to allyes? Or add target enemy return as ally to castle, 2 range.

Portals need 3 range, dont summon killers, Gates can maybe return enemyes to castle.

Alchemist needs a to be seriously revised. It have some nices idea. I would remove the fact that i can use the potion the turn alchemist give them, make heal potion a bit more usable. So we could make it a bit cheaper too.

Artificer should be seriously revised too. I dont see how to fix it, so, i would remove it and make another unit in its place.

Wizard can be 4 range attack and cant levitate range units. This is messing the game with flight, trade places, flight, use spells.

Dracolich should be very, very, cheaper. I think about 300$. Its a nice amount. We can make it 350$ and give 3 actions.

I think Hydra could be revised too. Not the self hydra, but the serpents. The fact that it is vigilant and poison impeace everyone from attempt to kill it with melee. I would remove poison in vigilant attacks, and let poison as special ability to be used. It can be 7 heads too, i never heard about hydras with 6 heads.

The feathered serpent is very nice, but i dont like its splendor. We can mightly give it reduce the damage by 1 anywhere within 5, and give serpent attack. Maybe reduce cost to 450$.

Bye everyone. Feedback apreciated.


I think most of that is unnecessary.
Diplomat does need a nerf.  It'll come.
General could use a buff and 4 power would not be overpowered.
Chieftain is fine.
Changeling-artificer means they steal one unit from you.  Just don't reuse the changeling.
Golem does not need 10 life.  It's hard enough to kill for low-power armies already.
Footman is not a fanatic.
Warrior is a beautiful unit when it's got a group of targets, and it doesn't need more life.
Armory is great as is.  Turns confessors into avenger-bots and soldiers into something useful.  Everything benefits from them and it's not unbalanced.
Abjurers are one of those nicely balanced units, kind of like the geomancer.  They have three useful abilities.  What more do they need?
Portals, I'll admit, should be shorter range, but should still summon killer.  It's not as much of a problem at range 3.
I like alchemist, but alch + scouts is a bit on the powerful side.
Artificer works well in specific circumstances.  More of a sideboard piece, and either a blessing or a fatal curse in random.
I don't see the problem with the wizard, particularly if it's comboing with a mage.  Sure, you get one good unit, but it's one good unit for 700 points, a couple turns of setup, and at least 3 command per spell cast by the mage.

FS works.  It's a purely defensive unit, and it's permanently killable by anything with a power rating (unlike, say, the archangel).


I'd like to beat the horse dead and kill it again and again. 
I'm perfectly fine at seeing units not completely 10)% balanced at their price level.  90%+ of the units are balanced enough.  Some key units like diplomat and other do need to be tweeked.  If...IF there is ever going to be more changes of units.  Please, please make units MORE SIMPLE Simplicity is far far more important than anything else.


I'm not saying that all these units above are unbalanced. Golem for example is completely balanced,  But at my opine, there are many units in the game and most of them are never used in constructed, or only used with other combo units. Lets talk about the priest. It is a very balanced unit, but top players will never use it in constructed. Why? Becouse its fragile, convert only 1 range, and 3 actions. The priest needs to get near the enemy to convert it, and when there are more than 1 enemy, the priest is simply killed if you attempt to convert someone. Then a new unit arrives, the conjurer. Conjurer can make the priest convert units without no risk at a big range. Then the priest is usable again, with a new combo. We can say some other units to make priest usefull, like the shield maiden, acolytes. But without such units very rare when a priest worth the 200$. Mourner. Mourner is a bit underpowered when you have a normal army, i mean when you get a random army in random. But when you get any unit that summons lots of units, like a necromancer or a HYDRA, it becomes monster, and will decide the game. Hydra is even more becouse it heal self at end of turn. No one choose a mourner without a combo. Then, i think it needs a change. Sergeant. This unit is nice when you get a normal army. They limited it to melee becouse of the channeler, but forgetted the hydra. Now you can make a hydra + 2 mourner + sergeant, make lots of serpents, becouse of the extra life in hydra. Some of my ideas, are just ideas i dont think need a change. i mean the golem or the footman. But units like sergeant, that i think i forgot writing, would be much more balanced if it can rally any unit, and rallied unit cost no commands to move only. Then it  could have +1 armour. About the druid, it was a perfectly balanced unit, until alchemists. Sure that i can make combos with crossbowmans (Reload with purge) and rangers (Lots of wolfs), but that only increase the amount of wolfs made by druid by 1, and cost more commands. The game will still have some RPS, for example, a scout is bit less usefull when enemy have a druid, and a dragons is less usefull when enemy have a martyr. Dracolich is (even) less usefull when enemy have a feathered serpent, Fire archer is more usefull when enemy have a (no mourner) hydra, its normal. But its to much an artificer, that is ( Very ) more usefull if enemy have a conjurer, witch, geomancer, priest, sycophant, confessor, maryr, heretic, possessed chieftain, assassin changeling, mimic, abjurer, enchanter, and very useless when enemy doesnt have any of both. Also, artificers can make combos with lots of golems, and get healing them, combos with elephant, changelings.
Jezebeau, you said that the changelings + artificer just means you dont have one of your units. No unit should be able to steal permanently one of your units anywhere within 6! Mimic can have one equal, changelings allow you to choose one of enemy's unit so. Honestly, i would like to see mimics returning to mimic form when diplicated enemy die or leave control. Everything i wanna say with that, is that should be no units that only work if opponents have certain units, or if you have certain units, or that doesnt work anyway, or that is as much overpowered to be needed to agree both players to do not use.


And Mongolian, simplicity is relative. Making units simple can mean that the units will have less abilityes, but i doesnt like it. I like units having lots of special abilityes, like the mages, that often have 3. At my opine, the only thing is not simple is the triggerpriority and sequence ID things, that i hate i have to remenber everytime someone get a skinwaler, or until everyone get all units deployed. Also units like conjurer are to much full of things. The abilityes should be at max 3, 4, incluiding the summons, and very strategical, instead of being lots and sometimes only make combos and make some units useless or overpowered. Its normal the fact that my units sometimes change the worth of enemy units, but i dont like when this affect to much the allied units.


Quote from: Kran on June 23, 2009, 10:28:32 PM
But at my opine, there are many units in the game and most of them are never used in constructed, or only used with other combo units.
Most of your suggestions are to boost melee units and nerf ranged/support.  You hate units that require support.  You hate units whose primary purpose is to support.  I guess that fits your play-style, but there's more than one way to play Zatikon.  If you hate combos so much, start bringing horsemen you can sacrifice in a rush to take them out.

The changeling + artificer combo doesn't fall under "no unit".  It's two units, costing 500.

I think the only unit in the game right now that people generally agree not to use is the diplomat.


Jezebeau, it cost 500$, but you can get 3 changelings with 800$. Its to much strong in coop. Doesnt matter if it cost much, its to  much unbalanced. Lets say about diplomat. It cant be used, not becouse it is to much cheap. Making it expenser doenst solve the problem. Everything i say about support units isnt to make them weaker, but to make them as usefull with one unit like with other one.
Example: Shield maiden. If it receive damage using protected units armour, It would be as usefull to protect a magekind, that is fragile, as to protect a warrior, that is heavy. As it is, its not usefull to protect any unit that can sustain more damage. Mages have long range, have very strong abilityes. Their weakness are life and armour. Should be costing protect such powerfull unit. A protected witch is harder to kill than a general.

Sure that changing diplomat is #1 priority


1. Changeling should be used by AI the turn of swap.
2. AI needs to be weakened.
3. Changeling's range should be 5 not 6.
4. Diplomat's Armistice should only affect pieces that didn't move this turn.  If a unit made an attack, I think that is fair.  Other solutions are possable, but diplo needs to change.
5. Conjurer's summoning range of gate/portal reduced to range 3.
6. Wizard can only target enemy units when swapping positions.
After these changes, I have almost NO ISSUES with units.  I realise you want to add more abilities Kran, but this is a low priority issue.  If even 10 minutes to 1 hour is doing to be spent, I want it prioritied in fixing the above #1-6, game modes, bugs and a few other essentials I forgot to mention.


Kran about the elephant, if ut us canged like u suggested then it would become a wyrm class unit atleast 5 range and 6 power that's bordens on overkill seriously give it those 2 abilities and an elephant rush would have a 100% chanse of winning every time it is used due to the sheer power of the rush
Bad guys are no problem when you're an asshole yourself