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Super Unit Abilities

Started by mongolian, March 08, 2009, 06:14:06 AM

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Overall, let me start off to say, the super abilities are super amazing and I'm so happy to see them in the game.  But, the game still needs more balancing for coop/single player.  A few things that bother me:

(1) The current AI acts 2x the power of it's supposed level. Aka, playing a level 30ai, feels like a level 60ai.
This may not seem like a big deal, but it's very intimidating from a new player perspective as it's more drastic leveling up in single player mode.

(2) Zatikon CAN NOT work with only 20% of the units being helpful.  What I mean by this, is that any level 150+ AI, means that 80% of all the units are going to be pointless to use.   If the game is revolving around using priest/draco/feather serpeant, why are we playing this game?  Zatikon needs to revolve around combat related units.  A pikeman or a footman even in large numbers should be useful against the AI, but it's way too watered down to work now.  Perhaps if there was a better scale level of AI then the current model these changes wouldnt feel so drastic.

Solutions to the the new *Super units*
(1) Tweek the value of what a Super unit is worth so it's not as frequent.
(2) Certain abilities like clockwork or Vampiric should be more rare aka more points per any level.
(3) Limit some of the current *super* abilities a bit more.  *Attacking anywhere within 5 seems to be the biggest problem, but only cause it's combined with power 5/6 units.  I don't mind seeing all the new unit abilities, but when you combine then with also making units 5/2 or 4/1 scenarios is too powerful for an attack within 5 (pikeman/archers).
(3) Limit the unit abilities specific units can recieve.  Most sorcerers should be restricted to specific abilities, same goes for archers, elephants etc.  Each unit I would have to go into detail at how too overpowerful each specific ability is.

Again, with amy solutions, the goal is to make coop/single player a bit more fun & beatable.  I can't stress how much I love the upgrades and feel it's pretty close to being perfect. 


I agree that the super units have made single player even more centered around draco/priest/feather serpent.  It doesn't matter how well you play, you simply aren't going to win with 90% of the strategies out there.  This needs to be changed.

Another possible way to fix this is to actually give the cpu a command point limit.  As a side effect to this, you can have it start to use units such as the tactician to give itself an edge.


Rebalancing all the units to be more effective against the AI would be at the expense of the PVP balance (which is what the game is balanced around).

The problem is that the Priest, Dracolich and Feathered Serpent are too effective against the AI.


*update on super units

Upon more co-op game testing, I've found some small success with some of the heavier duty attackers so I'm leaning more back towards the game being a bit more balanced.  That being said, single player is still on a much harder skill curve and I'm highly suspicious that a level 300 ai co-op is alot easier then a level 150 single player.  Still a bit frustrated that 20 pikeman, 20 soldiers, archers & horsemen in general, and a few others aren't valid.   


Can there be a cap of say 10 super units on the board at any time?  And/or maybe a total of 20 units that can be on the board for the coop AI?  I've been in too many scenarios, where despite I'm making head way and fighting back, there is just no hope.  And by making head way, I mean, I had the following and it still didn't help:

- I was controlling atleast 3-4 super units.
- 1 warlock
- 1 geomancer
- 1 alcolyte
- 1 alchmeist turning love potions
- 1 druid to reset the love potions
- lots of wolves for love potions

I feel like, if I it's not possable to win with above, something is a bit off.


I agree with that maximum a few months ago I had a coop where the AI had the coverd half the danged board with ballistae and the only reason we where alive where because this where back in the days when doppelganger worked as an insurance for your units and this we had 2 serpents eachalloowing us to sruvive but not win, not enough space and way to many attacks per round
Bad guys are no problem when you're an asshole yourself


I dont like these super units abilities... But its just my opine. And the skinwalker / dracolich just get a normal one after a kill :-(


I don't mind the abilities.  What annoys me is that the AI isn't very random.  It seems to spam 1 or 2 different units each game with a few others tossed in there.  When it spams a unit that your set of units can't deal with then you lose.

Also, at high levels the AI starts to make almost every unit obsolete except for ones that steal or get powerful quickly (Barbarian).  The difficulty increase doesn't compensate the player properly either.  It's easier to get gold by beating an early AI level for 50-60 each game and then intentionally giving up twice on the first turn to keep your level the same.


i don't play against the AI, because I hate to read all the units again and again  ;)


now I think that the main problem with the clockwork units is that they get some extra life and armor, above the inorganic ability. so you cant handle them with any ability AND it is very hard to kill them in combat too. I think if they wouldn't get the life and the armor they would be more balanced. (only in single player. coop is fine as it is now.)