Chronic Logic

#1.   Mimic/skinwalker.  If Mimic mimics a templar, then turns industructable, that same piece on the board becomes 2 pieces.

#2. Doppleganger.  DOPPLEGANGER BECOMES UNIT IT ATTACKS!!!! it says no where on the description it does this.  To make matters worse, it then gets free movements of the unit it becomes.  What a cheat.

Just happened in a game:

1. Doppleganger is shadowing a Templar
2. abjurer returns the Templar to the castle
3. a Serpent dies at that space where the Templar was returned from
4. the doppleganger becomes the Serpent

Very strange, the skinwalk/templar bug has been already been fixed in the next update.  We will look into the other bugs.  Thanks for the info!

Yep that happend exactly like that.

All these bugs have been found and will be fixed in the next update.

Awesome.

Couple bugs I've been witnessing on several computers:
- "white screen of death" when computer is low on resources, it takes 2-3 minutes to resync up game.

- Internet times out for 2-3 seconds.  Which results in complete lose of game

- Game needs "undo" button.  Last game I accidentally hit the draw instead of end orders button in a game I was winning.  Can you please have a dialogue box that confirms if you want draw/concede match.

- Additionally, I misclick during game all the time.  Clicking is just too sensative, maybe an undo button for last move?

I think the biggest bug is still the LOTS of disconnections. Today I played 5 random games. In two of them one of us was disconnected... And this is not a rare unusual day. There isn't a day when me or my opponent don't get disconnected during a game. I think, this bug should get the highest priority.

We are aware of the disconnect/sync problems and working on them.

I get a "connection interrupted" error and disconnected whenever a Fanatic makes a kill (in single player mode). Happened three times in a row: other units worked fine.

This will be fixed in the next update.  Thanks for the information.

The disconnection problem must have priority nr. 1!

Since the last update I have this problem 4 time in 3 hours.  It almost reached my limit and stopped me playing this game till its solved.

I have new crash for zatikon!!

skin that has been a fanatic attacked the witch
last thing that i have seen was the animation of the witch going over to my skin  and that's it.

Conection interupted and app closes

yea a fanatic making a kill in single player will crash your game! i saw scrundles post a day or so ago and read sherlock's post and tested single..... crash!

Fanatic bug is fixed in the last update.

I've encountered two problems with armies ovr 1000 points since the invite system was added.  The main one is if u search and get an ally and make ur deps and thn accept an invite ur units from the previous match will still b by ur castle... and u will have ur 1000 points u picked w8ing in castle like normal...... these are much biger probs than disconects.

also whn u join a game through invite whn alrdy in one... it has added units from previous setups.... giving me 1200+ point armies in co op

I can't recreate that bug Roxo.  Could you provide step-by-step instructions to produce it?

Thanks,
Gabe

try joining a game and dropping gen + tact first turn with first co op player. b4 u hit end accept co op thts was offered b4 u went on the co op search screen. don't hit end turn just drop the gen and tact and accept..... has happened 2 or 3 times like tht. the golem tht was added to my alrdy 1000 point army happened once.... denubis was thr i had gen assassin warrior tact tact artificier and dop. thts 1000 points but at the start of the match i also had a golem in my castle i was able to deploy. the golem was in my previous army. not sure how to duplicate the second bug. but it did happen...... gotta figure out my screenshot button.

whn u start the second game for the gen + tact thing the gen and tact will b there evn if with ur second ally going b4 u..... ur ally can deploy right ovr top. and u will have the gen and tact in ur castle as well as the duplicate alrdy there at the start evn if u go second.

also units are moving at the end of turn. the end of ai's turn in co op.  the players' units. not very often. but it is happening. my ally saw it happen too. and two of my ally's units ovrlapped mine on a single space.  told aravean, but figured i should just post.... if i wasn't lazy my sentances wouldn't run on an words to b mispelled and such.

Confirmation of a big bug.  Send a challenge up.  But invite someone to a game.  If invite game starts first, other game challenge still exists and will mess up game.

Yep the Invitation is a bug, same problem with me.

You can only invite 1 persoon, if you invite a new person you atomatic cancels the old one.

I've had 2 times that someone accepted an old invitation and my other match will come to an end.

Also the new started match (with old invitation) was a mess. I can deploy al my units in same turn.
Also moving units when attacking.

invitatiion bug is small comprared to the games whr ai moves ur units at end of ai turn against itself

Please fix that disconnection bug!! it is very frustrating. I played 3 games today against xsherlock and ALL of them finished with a disconnect (there was one more disconnection against an other player). And it is a very bad marketing when new players are talking in the lobby about that they were disconnected again...
I really tempted to give up playing the game until you fix this...

looks like a disconecting bug is back, I had 3 in 3 games tooday disconected , damm

Am i crazy or are some or all games not counting for rating?  I've lost some games to lvl 100+ and they didnt gain any rank.  Also vise versa.

Invite games do not count towards your rank.

thats a buger, they should!

I played vs ammo(demo), he got 13 points on start. So that was interrupt for me, 2 times in a row. Fix it, pls.
Last update brings so many bugs, very disappointing

tht should b fixed soon.... i sent in step by step how it happens.

I think that's great, you can play unranked games. It is a space for more play with not that serious constructed armies.

I take back what I last said, as I really appreciate invite games being unrated.  But, the challenge box should say its unrated as it is extremely frustrating to those playing for rank!

Re: Daemonas: The upgrades are really impressive. Sure a bit buggy, but it's a crucial step into other upgrades.

BUG*: When firing a Ballista and target is in front of home base, they move back into the base square.  I know this isn't specified anywhere, but only gateguard should be able to move in/out of base square.

i like tht... i hope its not a bug. it should always push cuz it isn't choosing to move thr it just goes back 1 space.

OK..some big huge bugs with the new assassin upgrade.

I've tried to invite play constructed 4 of 4 times with someone today and it crashed both our games.  We both had an assassin in our deck.  The 3rd time it crashed my game, it crashed so hard Zatikon wouldn't let me open the application until i Ctrl+Alt+Deleted the java application.  Then, later in the 5th try, in a cooperative game, the moment I dropped my assassin, game crashed.

Checking into this, do you have any other information about when the crash happens and when it does not?

As far as i know.... most ne invited game will crash, and ne time an assassin is dropped outside of single players games it will crash both players involved.

i will try and look into it.... the assassin not working in co op kinda turned me off on playing it all day yesturday.

I played no invite games.  In a cooperative game... few turns in..everything was fine, then my assassin came in and crashed game.  The crash may have occured due to the code that conflicts with the unit that had dodge or a changeling that can't be targeted after swap.

invites seem to b crashing A LOT. but on the other hand the new assassin is working in co op.

the trample of the elephant can kill an indestructible changeling.

i think an assassin who stuns a changeling that swapped crashes t he game.. will confirm later.

i have never had a problems with connection interupts.... but i get connection interupt 2/3 of my games.... i haven't gotten to finish many at all today and last night... very frustrating.

you don't play random or constructed. in coop it is very rare.

The assasssins seem to be fixed.  In an invited random game I have tried where opponent each have 4 assasssins and each 1 changeling.  Even when chengling is invinciple, game does not crash.  Also, tried infinite resummoning the assassins, that doesn't bug anything either.

in an invite game i have had it crash and display to listings for an assassin whn an ally deped an assassin ovr my assassin.

fanatic: "trade places with enemy. Triggered on attack."
shield maiden: "receive unit's damage."

still: when a fanatic attacks a shielded unit, the "trade places" ability is canceled. I don't see why. The condition is only the attack and not the damage. There was an attack, but the damage was redirected to the shield maiden. What the damage comes from, if not from the attack? Is this a bug or this is the intended work of the abilities?

strange thing: this is the second time I play against ravean a random game, he leaves the game when he would loose and after that nothing happen. I stay there in the game, it is his turn and that turn never ends and I have to quit from zatikon and restart it.

I think the reason why the Fanatic does not trade places with a unit protected by the shield maiden is because of how the shield maiden's protection works.  The unit being protected actually deals the damage to the shield maiden and the fanatics attack is canceled.  Not sure if that is how it SHOULD work though in terms of the game play.

minime - we are looking into why that would happen.  How long did you wait for the game to force a surrender?

I was about to win a game, when the screen frooze on me.  I have a low resource computer, so it usually times out in 1-2 minutes where the screen won't display anything, typically all white if i minimize the window and reopen it.

Anyhow, my opponent conceded and was already in the gate and I was still stuck for several minutes hanging there.  Eventually, I just gave up and reopened the application and was fine.

Is it the intended work, the firearcher can target a gate guard("immune to enemy abilities"), but cant target a changeling(indestructible. "immune to everything")? (btw, there is a third variant of this ability: golem, ballista, catapult: "immune to special abilities".)

an other strange thing: a changeling cant control an other changeling. (OK, this is not too important, just strange

Please post here in the forum when the interrupted connection bug is fixed. I don't want to play the game until it is there

QuoteIs it the intended work, the firearcher can target a gate guard("immune to enemy abilities"), but cant target a changeling(indestructible. "immune to everything")? (btw, there is a third variant of this ability: golem, ballista, catapult: "immune to special abilities".)

The fire archer is targeting a square because his attack is an area effect, I guess it could be worded more clearly, but he is not targeting the gate guard, just the area, it does not really target a unit.

The connection interrupted can't be completely fixed tell the internet is perfect and never loses packets.  We are trying to make it more robust though so it will not happen as often.</font>

I play poker and there are no disconnections at all(OK, I know, they have much more resources ;D). So I don't think this is a problem of the internet.

firearcher: so, is that a bug the firearcher cant target the area if there is a changeling?

If you get any weird disconnects, note the date and time.  We're closely logging these errors, trying to root out any bugs responsible for them.

i agree with the fire archer not hitting sqaure changling is on is not right. it targets squares without units... it goes by sqaure but its blocked.... immune shouldn't stop tht... u can still shot on a spirit or invincable temp right?.... i could b wrong on the spirit temp.... can't remember, but i think.

Yeah you probably should be able to target the square a changling or spirit is on.

bowman attacks mason on the wall and the wall protection does not kick in?
should it be like that?

The Mason reacts the following way with triggered attacks:

He's protected when he climbs the wall.

He's protected when he steps from wall to wall.

He's vulnerable when he's climbing down.

Then there is a bug as bowman will hurt mason on the wall in normal atack (its own turn).

The mason can still be hurt on the wall, his stats are just different on the wall (he has armor).

3/4/09 - When I buy new units, it completely unsommons my entire army.  When I go back to edit army, army is there again though.

Just playing some after the new update then suddenly the AI spawned a Clockwork Skinwalker, an Inorganic Skinwalker, it struck me as od that the AI should be able to summon units that aren't in the army list, so I figured it were an updated name for units that has been made constructed by the artificer, still I don't think that the AI should be able to summon sutch units, right?

No, that is not a bug.  At the current level of gameplay, humans are dramatically better skilled then the AI.  To substitute that, the AI has unlimited commands, 5 deploy, and yes with the new upgrade now gets *super* normal units.  The only thing to debate is if the super units are too strong or not, but I think the skill level of the AI is perfect.

But... I still have problems against the AI XD adding super units is kinda like adding fuel to the fire

Ok, i want your opinion on the  changling vs new dopell.  As it is now if you use changeling on the split doppel you will loose  changling to the enemy and will not get any unit in exchange !!!! (enemy doppel colapses to the initial state)

Should it be like that ?

Eh, I think it's fine.  The doppelganger clearly says that it will disappear if control of it is lost.  Requiring one to destroy one twin in order to claim the other is an interesting and somewhat deep tactical process.

This isn't much a bug as much as it's an error in definition/code.  The warrior gains actions for everytime he breaks a wall.  This shouldn't happen because walls should be treated as inorganics as that is what they are!!!
Please change the code to make walls reflect inorganics.

And yes, I'm sorry but a warrior shouldnt' be able to bust through an entire legion of walls then kill whats on the otherside of the walls 3 squares away...

I agree, this is fixed in the next update!

I noticed this with barbarian, but it might be a problem with simply what's considered the end of a player's turn: in cooperative play, the game seems to treat the end of an ally's turn as the end your turn for abilities.  In the case of the barbarian, its life and power goes down to the default at the end of an ally's turn because it didn't attack during that turn.  This makes it somewhat less attractive for cooperative play.

Also, is there any word on the bug that causes army changes to not "stick" after hitting the 'Save and Exit' button on the army edit screen?  It seems even more common since the last patch.

While in coop game with lumen, the game disconnected and resynched.
Then it started a loop of continuous disconnection and resynching. At each resynch it was just long enough to type a word in the chat screen, but then disconnect again. I quit after about 15 times.

I don't know what caused this.

I'll restart the game now, see if it continues.

Works fine now, was a one-time thing.

Disconnect+resynch loop happened again, while in computers turn. It seems to be a triggered event, not sure about details of what or which unit.

All these bugs should be fixed in the latest updates, please let us know if you encounter anything else.

Masons were changed to 3 actions, but continue to have a maximum of two when they climb a wall.

This will be fixed in the next update.  Thanks!

is it the intended work?:
1. if one player has a feathered serpent and the other player has a draco, the draco wont work at all.
2. you cant change back a mimic to mimic if it transformed into a knight and the knight became a dismounted knight.

(and the high level AI is almost impossible to beat now. I think the inorganic ability is a too powerful extra ability, it should be more rare. or bring back the engineer :D oh and it isnt too fun to read ALL the AI's units AND even remember, which had which ability.)

1. Serpeant only revives the first killed.  So your draco can steal the next ones, unless the ai has multiple Serpeants.
2. Lycan, knight and another unit trip the skinwalker/mimic state to keep changing, and yes that should happen. 

I love the AI, it's an epic battle. But really only is cooperative fun and no longer single player.   It's not rewarding in terms of time/effort spent in both modes for the gold rewarded, but still fun.  I don't agree with less inorganics at high level, but I do believe the AI should be beatable at high level without a stealing unit (priest/changeling/alchemist). This is terrable logic, a level AI at any level should be beabable by brut strength if done right, but not by stealing units, which is the main options presented, 100% especially in single player.

The high frequency of clockworks is the AI responding to specific units being present on the board: the priest or the dracolich.

In order to try to lessen the ease with which these units tackled the AI player, the computer now actively responds to them.  Unfortunately, it does so with EXTREME prejudice, producing frequently nothing BUT clockwork units.

mongolian:
now the serpent revives the first killed unit, and the other killed units die. so the draco doesnt work at all. at least it happened once against the AI.

right now it is VERY hard to beat the AI even with a priest :-\ if there wouldnt be that much clockworks, it would be beatable at least with the priest(and there can be lot of armies that contain a priest). or it would be great if you could choose what level you want to play (only levels that you already beat. so you cant play level 100 if you only beat the level 91). (And there should be some mark(or color) for each special ability. I really don't like to read and reread all the units every turn)

btw the "2 vs 2" game mode is GREAT. I just love it. One minor thing i would like: some indicator that would show the order of the players. for example the colors of their units would be there somewhere in the right order. (sometime i forget which units will move after me)

oh and the cooperative is pretty good again too(it was very easy before the spec units).

and an idea:
maybe(!) it isn't that good to use the rankings of the players after their names. maybe it would be better to use their points, if you really want to use something at all(and you could check the top rankings in the main window menu. and you could see your own ranking(and maybe your points) there too(or at the main screen next to your gold).). I think there are lots of account with 193 ranking (all the accounts that were abandoned after playing only some single player games, so lost no points). so if a player lose some games he will lose LOTS of rank even if his points not that low(because he will be behind the plenty unused accounts). and maybe it isn't too good to see all the time a 2000+ ranking after your name, if you lost just a little more games than you won. maybe the starting player has 1600 point(this is a magic the gathering example), and the other player who has won lots of games but lost more, has 1550, but the only thing he sees is that the ranking of the other player is 193 and his ranking is 2000+ and he will think that he is VERY bad, while he is just an average player(who maybe just lost against the top players). I'm not sure about this whole idea, but I think it worth some talk.

I tested a bit the AI today and I managed to win 6 out of 10 (at very high level). So it isn't as hard to win as I thought first. (I bought Legions and the Strategist helped a lot)

The ranking system is on the change list. It will be changed soon.

Just happened when I showed Tristram some unit abilities when i noticed the following:

Gave mason flight.
Flew untill i were next to tristrams castle.
Made a wall.
Climbed Wall.
Climbed down onto castle.
Did not win the game
Did not fix itself upon replification, nor with a non flying mason

Good find, that will be fixed in the next update.

When I was playing today, my teammate was disconnected from our co-op game. He reconnected almost immediately, so I decided to quit and restart Zaticon instead of waiting 1:30 to surrender. When I reconnected, I was logged into the same game and it sat there on my teammate's turn indefinitely. Luckily, I was able to escape the now-defunct game by accepting an invitation to another game. I don't know if it helps you debug, but I was playing on a mac.

I believe the server crashed, gold is now at -1.

Yes server died.  There was about 25-30 people online and I'm sure the server couldn't handle that I presume.  Most of the names seemed to be Russian based though.  A long while ago a Russian site found Zatikon and I presume an even bigger one found it today.

There were a lot of strange errors in the logs, and I had to restart the server twice to get the game working again. I'm examining the logs to see if I can figure out what was behind it.

Everything should be working fine now, just had to reset the server a couple of times :)  Let us know if there are any other problems.

i don't see, why the trade place ability of the fanatics works against a scout, but not works against the acolyte?

and why the scout doesnt go back to the castle if it attacks an inorganic unit? the ability say that after the attack the scout goes back. The condition of the ability is the attack, and the scout attacked. I think that shouldn't matter what was the target.

Fanatics switch places is triggered on a successful attack.  The scouts/rogues dodge or swordsmans parry cancels the attack hence the swapping places does not take place.  The acolyte reduces the damage of the attack to 0 but the attack still happens, so the swapping places still takes place.

The Scout's skirmish skill (return to castle on attack) should work on attack, but if you read the inorganic description it says inorganics are immune to all spells and skills, spells and skills attached to attacks do not trigger, hence the Scout does not return to castle.  It is a big confusing though, have to read the descriptions of both the unit attacking the the one being attacked.

Is it possable to add a list of unit affects to the game and add a button in-game to help players describe it.  I was helping out a new player and he was completely baffeled what was going on in a level 300 cooperative game.  Baffeled as in, had no clue how to defend/attack or do anything and he played pretty good in constructed.  Anyhow, I think the previous post is a good testimant that the system needs to be more PC.

when an AI unit with a super ability becomes a frog(by witch), it keeps the super ability. (i'm not sure if it is a bug)

Yeah, i felt that was obnoxious too that super AI still keeps powers when turned to toad.  When I buff up my piece with an enchanter and it gets toaded, did my toad turn into a super toad?

is this how it should work, or a bug?:
when a doppelganger has less life than the original, its clone will get only the reduced life. but if the doppelganger has more life than the original, the clone will get only the normal life.

Strength potions stack.  This is a problem.

Stacking strength potions is fixed in the next update (coming soon).

Not sure why it works this way , but currently when a diabolist explodes a unit, surrounding units with dodge recieve damage  (they don't dodge the explosion).

mimic can't copy a doppelganger, if it has a twin.

when warrior attacks 2 possessed, kills only one, and become possessed.
IMHO should attack ALL targets in range... =)

Quote from: mongolian on May 06, 2009, 02:33:59 PM
Not sure why it works this way , but currently when a diabolist explodes a unit, surrounding units with dodge recieve damage  (they don't dodge the explosion).

The diabolist's explosion is a spell, not an attack, so dodge doesn't work.

This one's a bit weird.  A flying mason still has his climb wall move ability.  If you click on it, the fly ability will disappear until next turn.  After selecting climb wall, normal mason movement behaviour persists until next turn.  Your first move must be onto a wall, but for his other two actions he can move to wall or non-wall spaces in range 1.  So, currently, if there's a wall 4 spaces in a straight line from a flying mason, he can move there, climb the wall ahead, and then some combination of two moves or builds.  I assume it's a bug.

Acolytes-protected units still take damage from fireballs.  It doesn't matter whether or not the protected unit is the center of the fireball.  The fireballed unit takes damage and still has the acolyte-link.  I have tested this with warlock, dragon, diabolist (w/other unit as center), and fire archer fireballs.  This is probably a bug.

Quote from: Jezebeau on May 16, 2009, 11:21:00 PM
Acolytes-protected units still take damage from fireballs.  It doesn't matter whether or not the protected unit is the center of the fireball.  The fireballed unit takes damage and still has the acolyte-link.  I have tested this with warlock, dragon, diabolist (w/other unit as center), and fire archer fireballs.  This is probably a bug.

Where you using your own units to test?  Acolytes will only protect against enemy damage.

Ok, alcolyte correctly protects damage from enemy damage.  If you ever accidentally fireball your own troops and have an alocloyte protecting one of your units, it correctly takes damage.  Alcolyte specifically says "ally ignores enemy damage".  It's not written ally ignores 1st damage source" or something saying ally damage is ok.

Despite the alcolyte works this way, it does seem odd that your alcolyte can't protect your ally damage.  I'm sure when the game adds tuns of other combo units, I could see how it is better to do it this way, but from a strategic stand point it doesn't make sense.  What if your warlock was drunk?  What if he accidentlly hit the wrong spot in a real battle?

I have noticed that the Skinwalker Bug of Doom hasn't been reported here, if a skinwalker becomes a doppelgangerm dosn't matter if he splits or not then becomes someting else then a doppelganger again the skinwalker just... disappears for no reason, also if a mimic targets an doppelganger twin it dosn't become a doppelganger but a single twin causing it to disappear, due to theese 2 bugs one of my best armies are nearly unplayable atm which is kinda sad since it's a gread army :(

Seeing as the Gate Guard is suppose to be immune to skills and spells while on the caslte how come u can stone him with your own Geomancer?

"Seeing as the Gate Guard is suppose to be immune to skills and spells while on the caslte how come u can stone him with your own Geomancer?"

Because he's immune from enemy skills and spells

Changeling can't trade with a changeling (not indestructable, just a regular changeling).
Doesn't really matter much, but still.

Arrgh! The assassin is broken with the latest patch. He never appears! Instead your units just vanish.

Cas :)

Quote from: princec on May 20, 2009, 08:43:09 PM
Arrgh! The assassin is broken with the latest patch. He never appears! Instead your units just vanish.

Cas :)

Will be fixed shortly, sorry about that!

Yeah, my mistake.  I was using my allies to test the acolyte.

The Scout doesn't get sent back to the castle when his target is immune to skills. Obviously the "return to castle" skill should target the scout, not the opponent. I mean, it can make the Scout a somewhat useful one-shot attack since he has 3 actions, but I don't think this was the intent.

Actually, I think the scout thing is WAD (works as designed).

The archangel's aegis ability is broken by chieftains when a protected unit moves *anywhere*, even towards the chieftain.  What's worse, the chief's ability happens before guardian, making a guardian chieftain able to block the movement of a protected unit.

i think the scout's ability should trigger on the attack(and this is what the unit description says). if the attack is successful, move it back to the castle, if the attack is canceled then the ability doesn't triggers, so it wont move back to the castle. but i think that it shouldn't matter what it is attacking.

Should not we create a new topic in units to discuss the scout skill to return to castle?

Archangels do not retun to castle when they die, if they get transformed before. Example, witch transform archangel. The toad dies and the archangel do not return to castle. Other things happens well, like the skinwalker skindance.

Also, Units loose their "auris" for the turn each time they move when a enemy chieftain is in game...
I mean, EACH time, i'm not talking about moving away from it. lol. When an "aured" unit moves, it simply looses the auris in the turn. Bah.

chiftain thing is as bug , noticed that as well, but the toad thing is normal this is the way to kill the archangel.

when a diabolist kills a knight with detonate, the knight just dies without becoming a dismounted knight.

Scout: though I think that if we read the scout's ability it should go back to the castle, but I think that the unit is just fine as it is now. This inorganic immunity is good for the game play. It is more interesting this way. So the solution may be some more text to the comment section of the ability: It wont work on inorganics.

there were two pikemen with archangel protection. an enchanter made a stun, and one of the pikemen became stunned.

the archangel's protection doesnt work against the bounty hunter's marking skill.

Well, if bouty hunter marks the angel, i think that is WAD. The archangel aegis make the ENEMY cancel first attack againt an ALLY, instead of making ALLYES to defend theirselfs of first attack. If the bounty hunter is marking the angel, its allright the archangel aegis do not affect it.

when a skinwalker becomes a changeling it works strange. if you use it, and then kill a unit, it wont change into that unit at the beginning of the other player turn(who now controls the skinwalker). if he uses it too, it wont change again. but if he doesn't use it, it will change. I think maybe the indestructible ability of the changeling prevent the shape change of the skinwalker. Maybe this is a bug.

No its not. The changeling indestrutibleness is WAD. Like the indestructible skinwalker templar.
Indestructibleness are not affected by anything.

I don't know what that WAD is, but the skinwalker's shape change ability seems to be similar to the indestructible templar's ability that can bring him out of the indestructible state. Both unit has an ability that make it change to an other form. Why the templar's works and why the skinwalker's doesn't?

New one to me.

Game matched me with a person with CHINESE CHARACTERS for a name, and a ranking of...#2046924317.

Game then crashed.

?????

WAD = Works as Designed
That happens with me too. When that bug happens, the opposing player play normally the game, then end the turn. But them who reads the bug still in the page that reads: You will be playing against "strange character", rank (213218312) > Something like that. cant remenber the numbers

Important: Stunned pikeman not a bug. Angel make ally ignore spells directed at them. Explosions not incluided when you explode surrounding the unit.

Allready discovered that was considered a bug and was "fixed". I dont know how people posted the game images, so, i will write carefully the aegis description:

Aegis:
At the end of turn, all allies gain a protection that cancels the next attack, spell or skill directed at them. The enemy unit still pays all cost for attempting the action.

I hope that means that the attack, spell or skill will only be canceled if directed to an ally unit.
I dont think  this should cancel enchanter dazzles, when the stunned unit is not in center.
I dont think also this should cancel fireballs, when ally is not in center,  warlock lightinings, when the unit is not in the end (place where you click)
I dont think too that this should even cancel assassin stun, cuz the assassin do not direct nothing to no one, just stun surrounding units. Even lancer attacks, i would say. Nothing should be blocked exept things you click exactly in the place where the enemy is. Other things, surrounding damage, heretic reckoning (not tested it), chieftain goad, nothing should cancel it. Also think aegis should be considered a spell, but thats the best topic to mine post sugestions.

This may increase a bit the complexity of the archangel aegis, well, thinking about it, developers can simply update the aegis description. But that make archangel aegis impossible to counter, make the archangel overpowered, make it VERY MUCH overpowered in 2v2 and coop, and sure, will make it simple, for people that dont exactly reads all descriptions. Thats not needed, for sure, but i like to. Well, thats up to you, game developers, but i'm sure aegis can't stay like it is.

maybe the angel is overpower a bit, but i'm not sure if this should be fixed by more complex rules. I dont know if two kind of spells needed in the game(with two protection type as well).

it would be great if there would be more feedback in the forum form Zatikon testers.

Edited the evenred message. Everyone please fell free to post opines.

Yesterday I encountered several bugs (before the server update).

2 vs 2 game
When we first tried, only 2 of the 4 players actually connected to the game. The other two players locked up and had to restart Zatikon.
We had the same problem when we finished a game; two of the players never saw that the game was over until they restarted.

Knight:
I attacked and killed a Knight with a Hydra. Then I killed the dismounted knight (still with the Hydra on the same turn). When the dismounted knight was killed, another dismounted knight took its place. Next turn when I killed it, it died normally.

Quote from: Kran on May 26, 2009, 10:35:20 PM
Aegis:
At the end of turn, all allies gain a protection that cancels the next attack, spell or skill directed at them. The enemy unit still pays all cost for attempting the action.

You are correct the description is misleading, it should probably say something more like:

At the end of turn, all allies gain a protection that cancels the next attack, spell or skill effecting them. The enemy unit still pays all cost for attempting the action.

I transfired that to the new topic at Zatikon Discussion

I am a little unshure is I have already posted this....

There is a bug that I have encountered twice now and I have no idea what triggers it, anyways it works like this, I am either playing or at the main menu or whatever I am doing then suddenly I get a chatbox telling me that I have accepted an invite that I never recieved, then I get dragged into the match causing the matc I am in to crash if I am in one, ruined the last 2v2 I was in, also it once happened on the main menu while I where chatting with Denub, then suddenly I get invite-dragged into a match... If you could look into this I would be very grate ful, kinda annoying shouolld it happen again

Hihi all

I try login today and receive this message: unable to reach the server.java.net UnknownHostExeption:zatikon.com

wth ???

there is an other problem with the invited games: you invite someone for a game and he doesn't response. If you just close the window without canceling the invite, he can still start the game anytime, even if you are in an other game already!

diplomat: summoner units(summoner, conjurer, hydra etc) and some other things(like arti), works under the "diplomatic immunity". this seems like a bug to me.

Quote from: Lunaraia on May 28, 2009, 11:10:24 AM
I am a little unshure is I have already posted this....

There is a bug that I have encountered twice now and I have no idea what triggers it, anyways it works like this, I am either playing or at the main menu or whatever I am doing then suddenly I get a chatbox telling me that I have accepted an invite that I never recieved, then I get dragged into the match causing the matc I am in to crash if I am in one, ruined the last 2v2 I was in, also it once happened on the main menu while I where chatting with Denub, then suddenly I get invite-dragged into a match... If you could look into this I would be very grate ful, kinda annoying shouolld it happen again

If this happens please note the exact time and let us know when so we can look into it.

Quote from: minime on May 29, 2009, 05:49:08 PM
diplomat: summoner units(summoner, conjurer, hydra etc) and some other things(like arti), works under the "diplomatic immunity". this seems like a bug to me.

Thanks for the info, the bugs have been found and will be fixed in the next update.

The archangel aegis is not is grey but innorganics are not affected. When opponent disconnect, then re-open zatikon, sometimes the game do not return, and i stay looking to the message saying that the opponent disconnected. If i try re-starting then, i loose the game and i loose points.

the diplomat doesnt have the new ability in random.

Quotethe diplomat doesnt have the new ability in random.

Whoops! 50% of the diplomats won't have Armistice in random. It'll be fixed next update.

I can imagine that. You created a new "kind of unit", the no armistice diplomat, for impeace abjurer to make diplomats get armistice again. But you maybe forgot removing such units from the random list. ^^. I can imagine the rate diplomat appear in random is twice now too.

and again the diplomat 8)
it is a bit complicated now. first of all it can give immunity to freshly summoned units. If i give immunity to a warlock and I attack with it i see that the warlock still has the immunity. but for my opponent the diplomat works as it should and he sees that the warlock has lost the immunity and if he attacks the warlock he can kill it. during this i see that he moves to the warlock and he cant attack it. so in my turn i still has the warlock and i can kill the unit that just "killed" the warlock ;D and when my opponent try to kill an other unit with the "dead" unit, i get disconnected and the game isn't able to resync again :P

Quote from: Chronic Logic - Josiah on May 29, 2009, 08:08:34 PM

Quote from: Lunaraia on May 28, 2009, 11:10:24 AM
I am a little unshure is I have already posted this....

There is a bug that I have encountered twice now and I have no idea what triggers it, anyways it works like this, I am either playing or at the main menu or whatever I am doing then suddenly I get a chatbox telling me that I have accepted an invite that I never recieved, then I get dragged into the match causing the matc I am in to crash if I am in one, ruined the last 2v2 I was in, also it once happened on the main menu while I where chatting with Denub, then suddenly I get invite-dragged into a match... If you could look into this I would be very grate ful, kinda annoying shouolld it happen again

If this happens please note the exact time and let us know when so we can look into it.

will do, TRUST ME! I can put to words the annoyance this bug brings, still it has only been twice so far, will post time date down to the verly last second if it happens again though count on it

If you have no commands left, rallied units cannot act, despite costing no commands to do so.

Hydra - Sergeant

I'm not 100%, but it seems like when I have the Hydra under the Sergeant's rally ability there is a problem.

Normally I can move 2, attack howmany ever times, and then pop off a bunch of snakes all for free.  But if you are ZERO team actions remaining you can move the Hydra but not attack or make snakes.  Seems like the program is not checking for free attacks and skills once your out of team actions.

Wak

Edit:  Another odd thing is that i can use Rally on the Hydra (maybe it works on anything)  and then have an Artificer turn it Inorganic.  The green line snaps off but it retains 'Free Actions'

Alchemist's strength potions still stack

Correction, if you have no commands, you can still move rallied units and attack with them, but any abilities activated by clicking on the ability cannot be used.

Templar doesnt work with sergeant..

Useless bug: When you purge a unit that is in truce, the unit looses the protection and the white flag, but the green line still. Also the line is fixed, and can be directed to nothing when you move the purged unit.
That do not affect the game, but is strange. Purging it should not cancel the truce also.

please mark somehow the shapeshifters(skinwalker and mimic)! like the possessed but with a different color or somehow. i think this should be easy.

shaman cancels the "rush" attack of the footman. the type is an attack. so i think it shouldn't cancel it.

If you read the description of the footman's rush, you see it will activate triggered abilityes for both, attack and movement. Movement triggers first, so, when vigilants attack it in a rush, the attack is not performed if the footman dies. About the guardian, goad abilityes and the vigilant one, the movement is only cancelled / attack performed when the own unit does it. That was more perceptible with the old sergeant, but now we see it when ballista attacks and towers dont attack  it even if it moves in range. Same applyes to conjurer portals. ^^

Kran

OK, but then its type should be Movement/Attack. and its color should be mixed  ;)

Diabolist's Detonate:

It is a spell, so, i cant direct it to an innorganic unit. Thats ok.
It is a spell, so, rogues, scouts, swordsman cant cancel it. Thats ok too.
It cause an explosion. There are nothing saying that it is considered an attack. So, it is a spell too.
If it is a spell, explosion damage is not dodged/parried. Thats ok too.
If it is a spell, innorganics should'nt be affected by damage caused by explosion. They do.
If it is neutral, everything is ok, but sounds strange cuz it will be the only explosion that cant be dodged/parryed.

Sollutions:

#1 Make explosion spell, innorganics immune to explosion damage. (I dont like it)
#2 Make explosion attack, rogue, scout and swordsman would still cancel the damage, and innorganics would be still affected.

Detonate seems fine to me.  The ability is a spell that causes an attack.  It can't directly destroy an inorganic, but they can be hurt, and the center can't dodge or parry being destroyed, but can dodge or parry the explosion.  What does warrant an investigation is whether an archangel preventing the center unit dying will stop the explosion (no angel yet, I can't test this one).

He suggests making it work like that, but it currently doesn't.  The ability is a spell, but the damage is entirely untyped, so that it pierces through things that stop attacks, but also affects inorganics.

I'd prefer having it be a spell entirely.

The explosion is not spell / skill. Otherwise it would not affect innorganics.
The explosion is not attack. Otherwise it could be dodged or parryed by scouts, rogues and swordsman.
The explosion is not neutral, Otherwise aegis would not cancel the explosion damage.

Wonder if it's an attack and a spell...


On another note:  I'm not sure if this is working as intended but in co-op, after an armistice, I can still take the castle on my next turn.  I don't know if the intent was for it to last two of my turns, but I assume it must be counting my ally's turn and fading before mine.

Oops. It is neutral. Aegis do not defend it.

Why can't the target of an explosion work like a geomancer ability and the "fireball" part work like a warlock part. Aka, how it is now?  I really don't want to see it blowing up inorganics though.

I also really appreciate that the enchanter's stun works on dodge units, but I'm a little confused what the difference between that and fireball damage triggering a dodge?

Enchanter dazzles is a spell. Affect only organics, and is not dodged.
Warlock Fireball is a attack. Attack innorganics and organics, can be dodged.
Detonate is half spell half neutral. The unit dies part is spell, only affect organics and cant be dodged.
The explodes part is relative to unit dying, so, if spell frizzles (actually only way is archangel aegis) isn't triggered. It is not considered an attack, not considered a spell, not considered a skill. It is neutral, and when triggered, is the only thing can circunvent archangel's aegis. Also cant be dodged and affect innorganics.

You cant make innorganic explode, but when organic unit near innorganic you can make organic explode and innorganic damaged by 4.

When 2 diplomats in game, and there are a diplomat in the castle square, one diplo can truce each other, making game stalemated. Actually, there are 2 ways to make diplo is castle square.

First: Protected or overlifed diplomat is shot by enemy ballista. Diplo is pushed to castle square and can truce each other. (Only for the first way there is no need or changing it, as we can see that thats very uncommon and need enemy participation.

Second: Conjurer summon a portal at castle location. Portal summon a diplomat and both truce each other. (Thats the big problem with it).

kran: i cant place a portal onto my castle.

Yep, i'm sorry for that. But you can mimic a gateguard, get in castle, mimic a diplomat, truce each other.
Also, you can get pushed by a ballista.

that's not that easy to mimic a gate guard...  ;)

I'm sure its not. But after all shouldn't be possible to happen something to make the castle square definitively indestructible, even with participation of both players.

Conjurer's Invert is an attack. But that isn't blocked, parried of cancelled and doesn't add to the conjurer murder state when units die in explosion.

Another thing, rogues stun are computer before checking for death. I dont like fact that when i kill knight with rogue the dismounted knight can act. Be carefull for making it happens even with strengh potions.
I would like to see wizards still having ability to grand unit flight to enemyes that allready have fly. That would stun the enemy.
Dopleganger thing is very strange. Twins doesn't copy things like flight, extra power, armour.  Just poison, damage and possessed. I think it should copy murder stat. And i would like it copying everything from original. I'm still testing sycophant and dopleganger relactions ^^.

You mean you don't like that when you stun and kill the knight's horse, the knight wasn't actually hit?

Quote from: Kran on June 09, 2009, 04:41:01 PM
Yep, i'm sorry for that. But you can mimic a gateguard, get in castle, mimic a diplomat, truce each other.
Also, you can get pushed by a ballista.

Two diplomats can't truce each other.  If diplomat A puts a truce on diplomat B, when diplomat B puts a truce on diplomat A, it'll lose the truce on it.

It will not, believe me. At least when i tested it.

Chat re-open but no one typed nothing.

Ok, this bug is low priority, and this has been happening for a while and never brought it up:

Personal chat window keeps reopening on it's own. Normally what happens is I start a personal chat with someone and then close the window.  Then, 1-5 minutes later, every once in a while, that same chat window pops up again.  My opponent didn't say anything, the window just randomly pops up again.  Apparently, this has happened to other player's too as I've asked around about it.  

Vigilants. The description is not nice. It says: attack enemy when enemy gets in range.
Should be: Attack enemy when enemy move to location in range. Fanatic zeal / ballista push not affected.

Longbowman. Something strange happened with this unit.
In the day this unit comes into game, was writen in barrage description: The barrage is only performed when the spotters attack is succesfull. Now they removed it. I thought the rule changed. But not. It still only attacking spotter target if the spotter attack was succesfull. I dont know why someone removed such description from the game.

Conjurer invert is also bugged. The conjurer is not considered to attack. Martyrs kill conjurer, invert when kill someone give confessor range over the conjurer, conjurers that spots to longbowman also doesn't activate longbowman attack when they invert. Shield Bearers doesnt block invert, as much as rogue, scout, swordsman, aegis.

Rogues, Scouts and Swordsmans Parry allied attack (Fire archer fireball). It says: Parry first enemy attack. Same applyes to angel.

Dople twin doesnt copy hubris, and hubris is a injurie.

Lots of bugs: (really lots)
Feathered serpent's Rebirth still works in units with hubris
Feathered serpent's Benevolence still works in units with hubris
Feathered serpent's Splendor still works in units with hubris
Healer's ability to heal damaged allies works in units with hubris
Abjurer's Ward  still works in units with hubris
Witch's Curse aren't cancelled by the archangel
Clockwork AI units doesnt have the description for the innorganic ability, and I think description for stun too (Mightly units) Low priority.
Flying mounted units have writen 2 times.  : "Movement cost no actions"Same applyes to units that get flattered twice by a sycophant ( with 2 hubris). No priority
Sycophant hubris doesnt allow units to help SELF. That makes no matter. Templar cant heal self. I think arrogance doesnt cause that. (Doesnt apply to succor)
Attacks life fire archer one doesnt cause damage in hubris units. Thats right, but sounds strange. Same with lightining, fireballs, smokebomb (Asassin) and detonate (Diabolist)
Quartermasters still heal units with hubris, when they doesnt act.

When a Feathered serpent in in templar team, then sycophant flatter templar, then templar indestructible, then kill the sycophant, the templar is still live (Thats ok), but VERY SRANGE, a dopleganger shadow moves to castle instead of rebirth. The sycophant doesnt go to castle
Diabolist still gain souls from dead hubris units.
Mourner's lament still trigger when hubris unit die.
Mourner's lament still affect units with hubris.
Invincible templar still receive somethings while invinciple. (Witch curse, abjurer ward, any automatic heal [QM or FS], extra life from mourner) Same applyes to changelings affected by fey. It says immune to EVERYTHING. I think that could be changed to immune to allies ^^.

Another important thing. Fireballs cant be targetted at invincible units. Thats not right, sometimes you wanna attack there, to damage surrounding units. Same apply to warlock lighining, but this time i can see no reason to get angry becouse of have to make the lighining a bit shorter.

What it sounds like is that hubris prevents allies from targeting the unit, but doesn't prevent passive abilities.

Please post all bugs as their own topic in the Bug list forum:

http://www.pontifex2.com/smf/index.php/board,44.0.html