Chronic Logic

Zatikon => Zatikon Discussion => Topic started by: minime on May 14, 2009, 10:05:15 PM

Title: Playing first
Post by: minime on May 14, 2009, 10:05:15 PM
I really don't like the rule the player with the worse ranking starts EVERY game. It is a big advantage in constructed and also a deciding factor in several random games. Please make it random and/or give some less commands to the starting player.

I'm really thinking about playing with new accounts and when I reach a high rating, I'll abandon them :P Or I'll lose some games with my real account, if I wanna try out what it is like to play first with a constructed army. But this is just sounds silly  ;D
Title: Re: Playing first
Post by: Wakrob on May 15, 2009, 05:43:12 AM
I agree that perhaps less commands for the first player makes sense.

Also I was wondering about Coop.  I have played at least 50 Coop games with my friend Goatofdoom.  I always go first.  Is this because I am higher rated than him?

Wak
Title: Re: Playing first
Post by: Kran on May 15, 2009, 09:58:44 AM
I like it random.
Title: Re: Playing first
Post by: mongolian on May 16, 2009, 12:00:29 AM
Wow, 1-2 less commands for going first would be a great idea!  Then yes, you could make going first random.  Going first has some extreme advantages with specific units and also depending upon what opponent has. 

But we need to be very specific about this.  In random armies, going first is only a slight advantage because 1250 pts are used vs 1000.  The other reason is that you will most porbablly be able to deal with the speed of an opponent.  Therefore, Random is less an issue with going first.  Now constructed on the other hand, it's a huge, huge advantage going first.  Most constructed armies are made up of few pieces and units have extreme more effect on the game.  Going first enables signficant advantages here.

Conclusion: Let person who goes first start with only 3 or 4 actions (vs the normal 5 actions).
Title: Re: Playing first
Post by: Jezebeau on May 16, 2009, 02:07:03 AM
I think it would be more fair to give the player who goes second one extra command, primarily because having fewer than five command points would make some units (wyrms) undeployable first turn.
Title: Re: Playing first
Post by: mongolian on May 16, 2009, 05:09:31 AM
In constructed mainly, but also random: here are some extremely harsh moves to defend:

TURN 1: General, tactician, Geomancer.  Followed up with moving the base and then Turn 2, all your stuff is in easy targeting deploy range.  Almost nothing can combat that if both players have similiar decks. It's a huge advantage.  or!!

TURN 1: War Elephant or Mounted Archer & an alcolyte/shield maiden. If you place poorly, that elephant completely guarantees you the center. or!!

TURN 1: Mason.  Granted it may not seem like much, but the extra turn going first and extra actions can ensure the protection of the center easily.

Basically, the route problem is that if both players truly had balanced even armies, going first is a decent advantage.  The two ways to combat it are yes, 1st person gets -1 action or player 2 gets +1 action for TURN 1 only.
Title: Re: Playing first
Post by: SLOTH on May 26, 2009, 08:32:28 PM
Good points.  Maybe reducing the number of commands the first turn is the best idea.