Chronic Logic

Quote from: Kran on September 21, 2009, 10:02:09 AM

@Norsker: I can understand your point of view, but the assassin paranoia isn't needed, if you can count the price. If you think enemy hava an assassin, do not maintein any space that can be used by one. A small amout of range can change assassin's plans. =)
Kran

Here's the problem, though-this doesn't help when the assassin is simply being used to cover, say, a channeler moving into position to kill everything in your army the next turn.  I used one yesterday to return a magus who I had used to hop forward and kill my opponent's most important unit-there was absolutely no way for my opponent to have blocked the move.  "Bunching" is frequently 'required' when you have to do a lot of blocking, or are yourself trying to charge a unit that just needs to die.  Even if you can kill the assassin, it typically gives your opponent the necessary window to put units in position to kill the units that were stunned.

I'd like to add in assassin and confessor to this list.

My problem with these two units is that there is no real way to 'counter' them, and a well-dropped assassin can quickly turn the game against a player who had otherwise been playing better than his opponent.  Sure, you can maintain constant assassin paranoia and ensure that every unit has support that can knock off one, but I'm not sure this is reasonable to ask.  Even if I do maintain perfect spacing, there's nothing I can really do to stop an opponent from dropping an assassin to protect his army at it moves into 'kill position'.  In my opinion, this unit needs to be removed or redesigned.

The confessor would be fine, if it didn't register murders that occur before it's even on the field.   Sure, you can try to avoid ever using a low armor/HP unit to land a kill, but this imposes unreasonable strategic limitations.

Quote from: Lunaraia on September 19, 2009, 01:41:14 PM
acualy i once won on the 5TH turn and still didn't get my rank nor my grub for the work

Had you fought the player several times before, in the same session?

Skinwalkers that turn into mimics stay mimics if they imitate something.

I don't think that giving it two actions will make the wyvern worthwhile-It's simply very hard to eat a unit, and then fly off to lay an egg without being stunned/killed/entombed/etc.  A 'double flight' feature, with reduced distance on each(move two spaces), would probably redeem the wyvern.

A Dracolich suggestion, while I'm at it:  rather than having dead units resurrect on the spot, make them deployable(at the cost of dracolich actions) from the dracolich. 

Quote from: Kran on July 13, 2009, 11:41:34 PM
That would be great, but would increase to about very much percent of draws in top level.

After thinking about it, I retract the suggestion;  it would indeed lead to a lot of very long draws. 

You can't return an opposing invincible Templar back into its 'normal' form.

It's an acceptable handicap for higher ranked players. 


There is an upside to moving second-you can often figure out which units you may want to keep hidden for the time being, depending on what your enemy just put down.

On the subject of Possessed 'bugs', Feathered Serpent + Possessed results in an infinite number of possessed;  when one dies and possesses a unit, a Possessed also appears in your deployment tab.

My problem with the conjurer wasn't necessarily the range;  it was(and is) the fact that there is no clean way to destroy the portals without inorganics.  When someone destroys a portal, they more or less know that that unit is a goner.   

That would be alright-if portals couldn't be resummoned each turn.  You kill one, lose a unit, and then another one pops right up.  You can try and rush the conjurer, but this is a crapshoot-portal placement alone can create a substantial obstacle to attacking units(either by blocking a path itself, or using the unit that just destroyed it to block the path) and a pikeman or tower ends a rush dead in its tracks.  Even if you manage to land that satisfying killing blow on the conjurer, you've probably sacrificed several units to do so(probably more construction points than the conjurer was worth).  Of course, you can't sit back and hope to maneuver around it-the longer you wait, the more cluttered the playing field becomes with portals.  I don't think I've lost a random where I was given a conjurer, and I doubt I've won more than one when my opponent received one.

In summary, do away with this 'suck in and stun' nonsense. 

Quote from: JoeMaster on August 12, 2009, 04:25:11 AM
i really dislike the fact that it only works on melee units.  I don't see how a  sergeant + bounty hunter shouldn't work when a sergeant + warrior does!  It's not fair   

Ultimately, it's harder to set up the 'chain kill' on a warrior than it is on a bounty hunter.

Quote from: JoeMaster on August 12, 2009, 04:22:47 AM
same thing to mimic?  mimic is worthless next to changling as the enemy loses a unit as well as you gaining 1 (twice the unit difference) 

It's not like the other player is forced to take and keep the changling- he can take his opponent's unit the very next turn.

The changling is a double edged sword in player vs. player games.  I've lost games because I swapped overzealously, and I've won games because my opponent made similar mistakes. 

The 150 point mimic, on the other hand, can become that 550 point dragon-and it's very hard to stop it from doing so.  And, unlike with the changling, you haven't just given your opponent the unit that may be your undoing.

Quote from: Lunaraia on August 11, 2009, 09:03:59 PM
towers - put them back to 100 or give em another action as they are nowthey are pretty much unused by EVERYONE

Can't say I agree-they can present a serious hurdle in random as is.

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Barracks - add the posibility of 2 soldiers per turn, the soldiers are weaker then the zombies the necromancer summons yet have the same speed, and to top it off the barracks can't protect itself, so as it is now it's quite useless in all play modes

The barracks is good for what it is- a cheap source of summoned units.  I've used it regularly when I want to feed a diabolist/confessor/mourner when I don't want to spend 100/200 more construction points on a druid/summoner/necromancer.

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Arch Angel - remove it's ability to capture the castle again, the aegis and immortality is bad enough add the ability to capture the castle and it get's to strong in the end game, also make sure thet it can't be reborn if snacked by wyvern.  

The Aegis or effective immortality could stand to be weakened somewhat-perhaps remove the immortality and give it paladin style survivability.

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Channeler - reduce movement by 1, 5 range and X attacks is beyond extreme for the cost of only 200, add the fact they can use all power to get an infinite ammount of power kinda makes em overkill and thus 4 range is MORE then enough as atm there is no effective way to counter a duo of channelers that are protected by shield maidens and acolytes

The channeler should probably cost 50 more points.

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Shield Maiden - should recieve the ailment the protected unit should have been aflicted with, afterall the shieldmaiden steps in and takes the blow, how come the the unit that is not hit either faints or get's posioned, dosn't make sense at all

Magical protection!

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Changeling - remove immortality after change, it justs get annoying after a short while having to constantly change back for units

So I can swap for someone's dragon, kill the changling I used, and laugh at the 150 for 550 point swap I just made?  

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Longbowman - sure it has infinite range when it has a spotter, but at that cost and the fact that it's usefulness varies ALOT depending on it's target it should have +1 power

The longbowman is a superb defender- I've lost several games to longbowman-empowered soldiers/generals.

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General - it gives the bonuses of both quartermaster and tac, I understand that, then PLEASE tell me why the quartermaster also heals AND have 4 power costs less? give the General +1 power and he's perfect, remove 1 movement if u abolutely need to debuff something to add it as it is now most people go for command post that gives the same bonus at less price, and can give X commands when needed

The general should be able to give 2 extra commands once a game.

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Spirit - the fact that it's indestructable is bad enough but to give it 3 power? common - 1 power  or +1 armor to all structures this guy is a major problem for armies that work around structures like barracks or armoury and should be nerfed

350 points is quite a bit for a slow moving, 3 power(albeit invincible) unit.  I think it's fine as is.

'Random' should give the same random army to both players.  As it is, both the outcome of a random game and a constructed game can more or less be decided before the game starts, as one player's units may be very effective against the other's. 

That's perfectly fine in constructed, where half the fun is thinking up and building armies(often designed to fight combos you know your opponent likes to use) and you expect to eventually run into a counter yourself. 

I would prefer to make random more of a chess game, where 'board geometry', rather than unit choice(or rather, randomized unit allocation) is the important factor.  One could hardly complain about being dealt a terrible hand by the randomizer if your opponent receives the same units.   

I'm inclined to agree.

The Archangel would probably be better suited as a 350 piece, with its abilities 'severely' diminished(weakened aegis, doesn't return to castle, etc)

While we're reducing the changling's range, I'd like to see the same happen to the mimic.

I like the idea of the conjurer, but he tends to be very, very difficult to beat if you don't have quite a few inorganics.  A reduction of its deploy and summon range to 3 and the elimination of the portals' ability to suck in and stun its killer should balance the unit.